Very well said. I have come to similar conclusions myself, from a scientific perspective.
Together we unite science Abd religion!
My science perspective starts from thinking about dissipation of high grade sun light as low grade earth scattered light. The shift in frequency from optical spectrum to infrared spectrum when starlight encounters a planet creates a change in entropy of the radiation. That change in entropy determines the extent of material reorganization that takes place on the planet.
Structure- such as hurricanes, oceans, waves and so on - emerges in the flux of energy. On earth matter in that stream of energy can re-organize itself.
We can think of structure as stored information. Over time different stocks of information emerge. DNA in biological systems. Geological layers in rocks. Curation of atmospheric composition, soil composition, the economy itself.
Scientists are learning that under non-equilibrium conditions matter can “learn”, ie stored information such as chemical structure can influence the information stored later. There is a memory of the past that affects the future.
So machine learning takes energy and resource as does human learning.
We then see politics emerging as competitions between patterns of stored information in human minds.
That stored information - whether it’s religious belief or ideological identity - affects how humans behave and choose to organize flows of energy that reorganize matter- the tools we build to do work.
We can choose to violently stamp out other peoples patterns or listen to them and allow our patterns to change in response.
Those are the only choices!
Different stocks of information emerge with flows of matter energy and information between them. Stocks such as social capital (the network of one to one relations) , learned skills in the work force, financial capital (a record of value created and who owns it), natural capital (dna library and organism distribution) , the built infrastructure (tools for rewriting matter patterns - manufacturing, agriculture).
For N stocks there are (N-1)/2 flows of resource so a matrix of flows between stocks exists - resistances exist which dissipate energy to heat and do thermodynamic work. If The total sum of entropy created exceeds the planetary flow of radiation entropy, then material entropy builds internally and poisoning occurs.
Some amazing structures can emerge but sustainability comes from regenerating those stocks - self-reinforcing patterns
For humans, whose mastery of nuclear power means we now can add to the solar influx of energy, increasing the entropy output of earth’s heat to space or use of stored energy in fossil fuels, the choices we make - which are based on information patterns in our brains - determine what structures emerge and how that energy flows between stocks. We are now at the level of energy dissipation where we macroscopically affect the oceanic and atmospheric compositions.
So the choices for how we allow our brain patterns to move around determine everything about the structures on earth.
We have only two choices for how we move those patterns around: one rooted in love. The other in hatred.
We can open our mind and listen to other patterns - give ourselves time and energy to learn about other ways of being - or we can seek to dominate and control other peoples patterns.
In our economy we each believe need money to acquire resource and have the patterns of matter we need. So we get jobs. This collective belief in social rules aligns our behavior. But the lack of sharing ownership of capital is act of violence.
We are forced into labor in a market where the output of our labor is owned by someone else and we all agree to this! It’s engrained in our collective brain patterns.
We can choose to open our minds to allow our brain patterns to evolve naturally until we find brain patterns that are stable to a diversity of flows of patterns. To do this we need to create space to learn about each other - build relationships with the people we hate.
Or we can seek to protect our patterns from changing through force. Literally deploy energy to dispel brain patterns that take over our preferred choices.
But the secret to peaceful transfer of patterns is to create the time and space to allow those patterns to exchange - this is deliberative democracy.
We have to recognise that learning about each other is a thermodynamic process. And we need to put resource into that.
If we don’t do that then we run the risk of locking ourselves into the violent combat of dominating brain patterns.
The system that will win will be the one that dissipates the most energy and produces the greatest entropy.
We can either choose to dissipate such energy through violence or through thinking and learning.
Thank you for the time it took to make a comment. Beautifully said — I love how you’ve expressed the physics of relationship and choice. In my book, I try to show that it’s possible to be both an analytical thinker and a person of faith — in my case, a follower of Jesus Christ. For me, science and spirit reveal the same truth in different languages: love is not just emotion but structure — the organizing principle of life itself.
Beautifully written and an excellent diagnosis. I wrote about this exact topic last week in my article "Why Most Intentional Communities Fail" and I came to very similar conclusions, speaking from my own small community in Ecuador that is building what you so eloquently have termed a Symbiotic Circle. Looking forward to reading your book!
This is so clear and written with passion and understanding of our deep impulses and blind spots. You also share how we can take a different and unifying approach. You are on fire, Richard Flyer!
I found similar attitudes among progressives in NY City where I lived for over 30 years. I really didn't find anything different among conservatives and religious fundamentalists when I lived in Greenville, SC for 8 years.
It sounds like you're particularly focused on a universal human characteristic as it manifested in the circles you moved in, but which is not in any way limited to ANY political or religious orientation. Pick every example you gave - the non dualists against the personalist religions; the regenerationists against the non-regenerationists, etc and you'll find each side feels the same way.
I have had conservative Christians become outraged at the very suggestion one might pursue an impersonal Divine path. One non dualist (speaking of "personalists" vs the "impersonalist" non dualists) at least had some humor about it: "I have to admit, the personalists have better music" - that is, Kirtan and gospel music)
Atisha was a 10th Century Buddhist teacher who put it quite simply: "There is one root of all human suffering; taking our limited selves to be absolute." This is exactly the original meaning of "sin" - to "miss the mark" - to act as if one is constantly praying, "Oh Lord, I beg you, may my will, not Thine, be done" (even while mouthing the opposite!)
Rather than pick on groups you don't like and take them to task for not being as unity oriented as you like (which, amusingly enough, seems not that different from what you were doing all along), why not accept that all of us - in true unity - are making the same mistake. "materialism" of the modern sort makes it worse - and to compare our experience of "matter" now with that of 2500 years ago is another mistake - "matter' as we now experience it may have only come into being 500 or so years ago - if this sounds crazy, drop over to Mark Vernon's sustack and ask him about Owen Barfield)
Meanwhile, a temporary solution is very simple. If we stop all this intellectualizing and conceptualizing and take a moment to look at real life, it's incredibly easy and obvious:
When I am sitting at a cafe on Amsterdam Avenue in the allegedly 'Leftist" upper West Side of New York City, or a cafe on Main Street in allegedly "conservative" Fundamentalist Greenville, SC, or supposedly New Age/progressive Asheville on Merriman Avenue, if I'm not talking with someone about politics and religion, but just real life;
Hey, how are the kids doing/
Did you get out to the waterfalls this weekend?
Kind of tough that X/Y/Z or whoever lost the game.
Feeling better after the surgery?
Then politics and religion and all that nonsense falls aside.
This is most of my experience online, by the way. I get regular practical and "spiritual" (universal, nonsectarian, practical!) inspiring posts everywhere I subscribe, and in just 10-20 minutes a day, the online experience can be universal, inspiring, non toxic, and simple. We can choose to make our whole lives this way without any complicated texts or explanations.
I assume in your new explorations of Christianity you've come across Paul's quote of the 3rd century BC Greek Poet who speaks of God as "he in whom we live and move and have our being."
I came across that over 50 years ago and I really don't know that much else is needed for living a devoted, surrendered life of love and compassion. Or take Texas' representative James Talarico's frequent quoting of his pastor grandfather, and the two commandments - to live God with all your heart, mind, life and body and soul and your "neighbor" (everyone) as your Self.
Such simplicity.
Finally, the way I like to summarize it:
Just stepping back slightly, you'll find an immense, vast Silence permeating the cosmos. As you touch this even slightly, you'll find your thoughts coming to rest, giving you access to intuitive guidance from beyond your little self.
And going deep into the heart, there is a yearning to give to express love, compassion, and to see beauty and wisdom and goodness expressed everywhere.
Don, I really appreciate your generous and thoughtful reflection.
You’re absolutely right—the tendency to absolutize our partial view is universal, and fanaticism, as Santayana said, “consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim.” I get more into that in the subsequent parts of this essay -- I did this in parts to give the ideas time to digest.
I pondered this essay for months before publishing, knowing it could stir reactions. I took my time writing it as a way to become aware of my own reactions and to do my best to write from Love.
I wrote this from lived experience—because my whole book is about how I had to overcome every polarity to unify my own community in practical ways: building local living-economy networks, neighborhood food systems, and spaces of genuine connection.
My focus on progressivism reflects the world I inhabited and gave me an insider's perspective. Like you, I’ve found that what truly heals division isn’t critique but the rediscovery of love, humility, and the quiet presence that can hold all our differences in one shared life.
I would love to see some follow up articles on inner ways (things that can be implemented immediately, before the outer framework is built) to support "the rediscovery of love, humility and quiet presence."
Looking forward to it. That's what Jan and I are trying to articulate as well.
Very well said. I have come to similar conclusions myself, from a scientific perspective.
Together we unite science Abd religion!
My science perspective starts from thinking about dissipation of high grade sun light as low grade earth scattered light. The shift in frequency from optical spectrum to infrared spectrum when starlight encounters a planet creates a change in entropy of the radiation. That change in entropy determines the extent of material reorganization that takes place on the planet.
Structure- such as hurricanes, oceans, waves and so on - emerges in the flux of energy. On earth matter in that stream of energy can re-organize itself.
We can think of structure as stored information. Over time different stocks of information emerge. DNA in biological systems. Geological layers in rocks. Curation of atmospheric composition, soil composition, the economy itself.
Scientists are learning that under non-equilibrium conditions matter can “learn”, ie stored information such as chemical structure can influence the information stored later. There is a memory of the past that affects the future.
So machine learning takes energy and resource as does human learning.
We then see politics emerging as competitions between patterns of stored information in human minds.
That stored information - whether it’s religious belief or ideological identity - affects how humans behave and choose to organize flows of energy that reorganize matter- the tools we build to do work.
We can choose to violently stamp out other peoples patterns or listen to them and allow our patterns to change in response.
Those are the only choices!
Different stocks of information emerge with flows of matter energy and information between them. Stocks such as social capital (the network of one to one relations) , learned skills in the work force, financial capital (a record of value created and who owns it), natural capital (dna library and organism distribution) , the built infrastructure (tools for rewriting matter patterns - manufacturing, agriculture).
For N stocks there are (N-1)/2 flows of resource so a matrix of flows between stocks exists - resistances exist which dissipate energy to heat and do thermodynamic work. If The total sum of entropy created exceeds the planetary flow of radiation entropy, then material entropy builds internally and poisoning occurs.
Some amazing structures can emerge but sustainability comes from regenerating those stocks - self-reinforcing patterns
For humans, whose mastery of nuclear power means we now can add to the solar influx of energy, increasing the entropy output of earth’s heat to space or use of stored energy in fossil fuels, the choices we make - which are based on information patterns in our brains - determine what structures emerge and how that energy flows between stocks. We are now at the level of energy dissipation where we macroscopically affect the oceanic and atmospheric compositions.
So the choices for how we allow our brain patterns to move around determine everything about the structures on earth.
We have only two choices for how we move those patterns around: one rooted in love. The other in hatred.
We can open our mind and listen to other patterns - give ourselves time and energy to learn about other ways of being - or we can seek to dominate and control other peoples patterns.
In our economy we each believe need money to acquire resource and have the patterns of matter we need. So we get jobs. This collective belief in social rules aligns our behavior. But the lack of sharing ownership of capital is act of violence.
We are forced into labor in a market where the output of our labor is owned by someone else and we all agree to this! It’s engrained in our collective brain patterns.
We can choose to open our minds to allow our brain patterns to evolve naturally until we find brain patterns that are stable to a diversity of flows of patterns. To do this we need to create space to learn about each other - build relationships with the people we hate.
Or we can seek to protect our patterns from changing through force. Literally deploy energy to dispel brain patterns that take over our preferred choices.
But the secret to peaceful transfer of patterns is to create the time and space to allow those patterns to exchange - this is deliberative democracy.
We have to recognise that learning about each other is a thermodynamic process. And we need to put resource into that.
If we don’t do that then we run the risk of locking ourselves into the violent combat of dominating brain patterns.
The system that will win will be the one that dissipates the most energy and produces the greatest entropy.
We can either choose to dissipate such energy through violence or through thinking and learning.
That’s the choice we have! :)
Thank you for the time it took to make a comment. Beautifully said — I love how you’ve expressed the physics of relationship and choice. In my book, I try to show that it’s possible to be both an analytical thinker and a person of faith — in my case, a follower of Jesus Christ. For me, science and spirit reveal the same truth in different languages: love is not just emotion but structure — the organizing principle of life itself.
This was one of those very few posts I read all the way down to the very end. So comforting.
Are you familiar with David Jay, “Relationality”?
Thank you Ricardo for your supportive comment. I am not familiar with the author. Also, did you get to read the other two parts?
Beautifully written and an excellent diagnosis. I wrote about this exact topic last week in my article "Why Most Intentional Communities Fail" and I came to very similar conclusions, speaking from my own small community in Ecuador that is building what you so eloquently have termed a Symbiotic Circle. Looking forward to reading your book!
Great to hear from you and to learn about your lived experience. If you would like to share a link to your article, that could be valuable for others.
https://open.substack.com/pub/trewregenerative/p/why-most-intentional-communities?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=64wpo
This is so clear and written with passion and understanding of our deep impulses and blind spots. You also share how we can take a different and unifying approach. You are on fire, Richard Flyer!
"Yet our deepest problems are not mechanical but relational—not solved by purification, but by participation in something greater than ourselves." 👍🏼
Thanks for quoting!
I found similar attitudes among progressives in NY City where I lived for over 30 years. I really didn't find anything different among conservatives and religious fundamentalists when I lived in Greenville, SC for 8 years.
It sounds like you're particularly focused on a universal human characteristic as it manifested in the circles you moved in, but which is not in any way limited to ANY political or religious orientation. Pick every example you gave - the non dualists against the personalist religions; the regenerationists against the non-regenerationists, etc and you'll find each side feels the same way.
I have had conservative Christians become outraged at the very suggestion one might pursue an impersonal Divine path. One non dualist (speaking of "personalists" vs the "impersonalist" non dualists) at least had some humor about it: "I have to admit, the personalists have better music" - that is, Kirtan and gospel music)
Atisha was a 10th Century Buddhist teacher who put it quite simply: "There is one root of all human suffering; taking our limited selves to be absolute." This is exactly the original meaning of "sin" - to "miss the mark" - to act as if one is constantly praying, "Oh Lord, I beg you, may my will, not Thine, be done" (even while mouthing the opposite!)
Rather than pick on groups you don't like and take them to task for not being as unity oriented as you like (which, amusingly enough, seems not that different from what you were doing all along), why not accept that all of us - in true unity - are making the same mistake. "materialism" of the modern sort makes it worse - and to compare our experience of "matter" now with that of 2500 years ago is another mistake - "matter' as we now experience it may have only come into being 500 or so years ago - if this sounds crazy, drop over to Mark Vernon's sustack and ask him about Owen Barfield)
Meanwhile, a temporary solution is very simple. If we stop all this intellectualizing and conceptualizing and take a moment to look at real life, it's incredibly easy and obvious:
When I am sitting at a cafe on Amsterdam Avenue in the allegedly 'Leftist" upper West Side of New York City, or a cafe on Main Street in allegedly "conservative" Fundamentalist Greenville, SC, or supposedly New Age/progressive Asheville on Merriman Avenue, if I'm not talking with someone about politics and religion, but just real life;
Hey, how are the kids doing/
Did you get out to the waterfalls this weekend?
Kind of tough that X/Y/Z or whoever lost the game.
Feeling better after the surgery?
Then politics and religion and all that nonsense falls aside.
This is most of my experience online, by the way. I get regular practical and "spiritual" (universal, nonsectarian, practical!) inspiring posts everywhere I subscribe, and in just 10-20 minutes a day, the online experience can be universal, inspiring, non toxic, and simple. We can choose to make our whole lives this way without any complicated texts or explanations.
I assume in your new explorations of Christianity you've come across Paul's quote of the 3rd century BC Greek Poet who speaks of God as "he in whom we live and move and have our being."
I came across that over 50 years ago and I really don't know that much else is needed for living a devoted, surrendered life of love and compassion. Or take Texas' representative James Talarico's frequent quoting of his pastor grandfather, and the two commandments - to live God with all your heart, mind, life and body and soul and your "neighbor" (everyone) as your Self.
Such simplicity.
Finally, the way I like to summarize it:
Just stepping back slightly, you'll find an immense, vast Silence permeating the cosmos. As you touch this even slightly, you'll find your thoughts coming to rest, giving you access to intuitive guidance from beyond your little self.
And going deep into the heart, there is a yearning to give to express love, compassion, and to see beauty and wisdom and goodness expressed everywhere.
Don, I really appreciate your generous and thoughtful reflection.
You’re absolutely right—the tendency to absolutize our partial view is universal, and fanaticism, as Santayana said, “consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim.” I get more into that in the subsequent parts of this essay -- I did this in parts to give the ideas time to digest.
I pondered this essay for months before publishing, knowing it could stir reactions. I took my time writing it as a way to become aware of my own reactions and to do my best to write from Love.
I wrote this from lived experience—because my whole book is about how I had to overcome every polarity to unify my own community in practical ways: building local living-economy networks, neighborhood food systems, and spaces of genuine connection.
My focus on progressivism reflects the world I inhabited and gave me an insider's perspective. Like you, I’ve found that what truly heals division isn’t critique but the rediscovery of love, humility, and the quiet presence that can hold all our differences in one shared life.
Thank you again for your reply.
I would love to see some follow up articles on inner ways (things that can be implemented immediately, before the outer framework is built) to support "the rediscovery of love, humility and quiet presence."
Looking forward to it. That's what Jan and I are trying to articulate as well.